Conversations For Transformation: Essays Inspired By The Ideas Of Werner Erhard

Conversations For Transformation

Essays By Laurence Platt

Inspired By The Ideas Of Werner Erhard

And More


GoFundMe

Zoom With The Master III:

If You Say So

Cowboy Cottage, East Napa, California, USA

May 25, 2025



"If you say so." ... Randy McNamara, Landmark Forum Leader Emeritus

"If that's what you got." ... Stewart Emery, first person to lead the est training after Werner
This essay, Zoom With The Master III: If You Say So, is the companion piece to If That's What You Got.

It is also the third in an open group Zoom With The Master:
  1. Zoom With The Master
  2. Zoom With The Master II: Ontological Trout Fishing
  3. Zoom With The Master III: If You Say So
so far, in that order.

The open group Zoom With Master, is the sequel to the trilogy Breakfast With The Master X:
  1. Breakfast With The Master X: Living In A Story
  2. Breakfast With The Master X II: Don't Believe In The Buddha
  3. Breakfast With The Master X III: Broadening Horizons
in that order.




I'd set an alarm for 5:00am to get up, shower, and prepare for the laser-like focus which was about to ensue. At 6:00am bang on time, he's right there on my laptop screen, and I can tell he's equally prepared for our meeting. The "Hello!"s and the "How are you?"s are quickly dispensed with. And there's really nothing wrong with "Hello!"s and "How are you?"s, except that the occasions we have together are too valuable, too precious to spend much time on them.

He cuts through them like a hot knife through butter. "So what's really  going on?" he asks. And yes, there's a list I've made of what I'd like to run by him, or at least of what I'd like him to know (just knowing he knows has its own order of value, all by itself). But the real worth of sharing my list with him, lies a lot less in its subject matter's issues, and a lot more in just being in a conversation with him about anything. He is a person who is his word - extremely powerfully so. He's so powerful I once deemed him to be "scary"  powerful. His power is whence the value of being around him comes. I get it by osmosis.

In a conversation with him, you strap in, buckle up, then hang on for dear life throughout the ride - which is as exhilarating as it's daunting. Ultimately all my exchanges with him are some of the most valuable interactions I've ever had the privilege of being in. They're the very antitheses of business as usual.

The theme for our meeting emerges very early on in the piece when we're talking about the various ways we make things significant even when they're not (things are just the way they are). And he (there's no doubt about this in my mind, not one scintilla) is the destroyer of significance. He is to significance as Lord Shiva is to the manifest creation, as tamas  is to the life force. And in the middle of sharing a recent incident with him and the conclusions I drew from it (the specifics of which are actually besides the point here), he says "If you say so.". I get it. I made it up. I added significance. So I tell him I got how I add significance to just about everything, to which he says "If you say so" - only this time, it stops me in my tracks. I begin entertaining the possibility of things being the way they are only because I say so, and (wait for it) the "... because I say so ..." part too is also only because I say so. It's all  my say-so.

Frantically I look for a way out. Something in me comes to a dead stop with nowhere to go. I share it with him. He says "... if you say so". It's confronting, almost physical, like walking into a brick wall. There's nothing else. There's only "If you say so.". Wow! Just: wow! I'm consumed by looking at what the point of it all is. I say "I got it! There is  no point", to which he replies "... if you say so", at which moment a silence descends like a black velvet curtain. He quakes in a hearty belly laugh and says "This is it!". I'm wide-awake now. "If you say so"  I push back. I don't stay stoopid for long. He smiles, approvingly.

Now unfettered from the significance I put on my life, our conversation swings through a variety of issues: health, aging, retirement, creating a context, and not dragging the past into the present (no matter how great the past was). He comes up with a remarkable differentiation between "having a life" and "being  alive in the present moment" (a differentiation I make a note of to revisit with him at a later date). I recreate the subject material of a recent essay of mine for him, one which looks at maintaining integrity even while not keeping my word. I'm clear on this distinction. But to hear him articulate it, is to listen a master at work. The economy and accuracy of his language is something marvelous, his confidence speaking it awesome, its power mesmerizing.

Our scheduled time together is now rapidly drawing to its inevitable close. Again, there's another burst of pleasantries, only this time they're the "Goodbye" pleasantries rather than the "Hello" pleasantries. And then he drops this nugget into our space: he tells me that out of our interaction today, he's gained a deeper access to his identity as the "destroyer of significance" simply by naming it that way in the course of our conversation together (in response to one of my many "If you say so"s, no doubt). When a master acknowledges you for empowering him in distinguishing something clearer that he's already quite brilliant at, you sit bolt-upright and take notice - which I did ... just in time to hear him say "Talk with you soon", and watch my laptop screen fade to black.



Communication Promise E-Mail | Home

© Laurence Platt - 2025 Permission